Topic: Interface Suggestion

I Just ordered my Voicelive Rack and can't wait to play with it.  It's THE unit I've been looking for.  I've used the Digitech VX400 for years.  I don't use a foot switch on stage so the pedal was not needed.  But the ability to use the same processor for stage and USB studio has always been awesome for me.  Now, adding a mic switch will be welcomed and I still won't have to have a foot switch.

I'm extremely familiar with adjusting settings to get the sounds I want and I've read up quite a bit on the unit and it looks like changing presets is done strictly on the unit, with the ability to export and import.  I do have a suggestion, if those are welcomed.  One of the advantages the VX400 has, still, is the ability to bring up a graphical interface in Windows and make changes on the screen to all the settings of a preset while you are singing and/or recording.  I feel strongly that it's much easier to do on the screen if you are making the changes yourself, as I do.  Not only can I make the changes on screen, I can save the current preset individually to a file prior to making changes.  Then, I can try the setting both in the studio and/or live before deciding if I want to keep the changes.  If not, it's very easy to go back to that preset without changing any of the others.

I am sure I'll have lots of questions so thanks very much for the forum.  I'm hoping to be able to contribute as much or more as the help I get here.

Re: Interface Suggestion

Hiya MrBoo,

Suggestions are always welcome!

In the past, we've done editors for our hardware, but in last few generations of product, we've opted not to. It's one of those things that is super-useful for a very small segment of the user base (not that they aren't important, just small) and the cost/time to get a 3rd party developer to make the editor just wasn't feasible for us anymore.

You can use VoiceSupport to do most of what you're after, in terms of auditioning presets etc.

Presets can be saved, archived, and restored pretty easily within the program. Lots of users use VS to save presets they know they may want to put back in the box one day and then just drag/drop them from an Archive or import from a previous Export, whenever they want to.

Hope that helps!

-Craig

Re: Interface Suggestion

Thanks, Craig..  Yeah, I know I'm probably in the small side of the users that can find an interface useful.  I just prefer to work alone when it comes to my sound and I'm very particular.  I am certain I'll find the rack much easier to get what I want than the vx400.  As easy as it was to use, it was much more difficult to hone in on what I wanted.  I'll make do if I can save my settings per preset but I wanted to throw my wants out there just to share my opinion.

Re: Interface Suggestion

Hi MrBoo,

You should find the editing in the Rack pretty deep. When it comes to preset management, you can save anything you want per-preset as long as you've got Global controls turned off in the Setup menu(s).

Keep me posted on how the Rack shapes up for you.

-Craig

Re: Interface Suggestion

Will do.  I think mine shows up tomorrow.  Let the learning curve begin!!

Re: Interface Suggestion

I guess I should just keep this thread going...
Night one:  Granted this is after 3 hours of messing around so none of this should be considered by prospective future owners, except the good stuff..  tongue
Unit:  1.0.05 build 21 sun:89 avr:14
Vocal Support version: 1.1.1 build 28
System: Quad core, 16 gig ram, Windows 7

The unit is a good size and will fit in my portable rack box easily.  I'll have room in the back to store the mic.
The mic is as advertised.  Solid, handles well, rejects ambient noise well and has a decent vocal reproduction (I think).  It tapers too much for me and is too thin on the palm side but hopefully I can get used to that.  There's no click when the button is pushed so I don't know if I've toggled or not.  Not a huge deal for me as I'll probably use it as a momentary switch most of the time.  I can't tell at this point how the mic handles a wide range of signal because most of the presets I played with had more compression than I'm used to and I don't know if the signal bar is before the preamp/tone or after.

As for the presets, I played with the Brick one first.  Another brick in the wall, right?  I sort of felt like I was singing to it in rock band, if that makes sense..  Sounded great, but way more processed than I am used to.  I know, I need to customize it for me and I am no where near ready to attempt that just yet.  So I would call up other presets, maybe turn blocks on and off, then think of a song that would fit.  With 12, I think it was, I could do the Everly Brother's all day long..  LOL  I might even be able to tweak that one and use it.
Of course this time was split between looking through presets, testing them and fumbling through the menus.  Of course you already know I would much prefer to do this with my head pointed at the screen instead of down and around and at the little screen but that's something I'll live with.  It's just going to make the learning curve much much longer.
One issue I had, was as I would play with the settings, the mic control seemed to switch itself off without me even being in that area.  I'd be in the middle of the song and realize the button had been turned off.  So I try to fumble through the setup to that area and turn it back on.  Again, three hours so I am sure I am not doing something right..
I couldn't test the Voice Support software.  I loaded it off the CD and rebooted.  When it comes up, it says there is no internet connection.  Well, there certainly was one.  Next, the software didn't find my device. If I turned the device off and back on, the software would say that a new midi device was found but did not find my rack as a TC device.  Looking to manually add the device, the Rack wasn't listed in the products.  So, I'm not sure, yet, how much the Voice Support will help me with making changes.
Speaking of making changes to presets, There and probably 50 undocumented settings for some things, like Reverb and delay.  Figuring out all of those from that little screen will take forever.  It would be cool if you could at least build a preset from blocks of other presets.  Say, you like the delay in one, so you can copy it to another.  You like the reverb in a different one, so you copy that to the one you are building.  You like the tone for a studio preset from one, so you duplicate the preset you are building, and add that tone.  You maybe put the same one in the second preset and adjust the compression down for a live preset.  Maybe that is possible with the voice support, and my guess is I just need to download the latest version.
Speaking of the compression.  It is awesome and I haven't really looked at the settings.  I've developed the proper support to be able to push my registers but this unit seems to be designed to help you develop a similar sound without pushing your registers.  When I would get to a point that I normally would, the unit seemed to say, "uh, that's a no no with me.  Adjust your preset and try it a different way without pushing."
The pitch control can be useful in some applications, but I probably won't need it often.  I'm a bleeding register singer and the pitch control tends to mis-identify the note to correct at times.  It works great for songs that are solid in the head, chest or falsetto. 
The harmonies will be useful once I get things figured out.  An issue I couldn't resolve in my lengthy three hour testing:  I would like to bring in my backing music for reference to the harmonies but without patching it through.  I mix already on my board and I don't want to have to mess with mixing the backings in the unit.  I could not find a way to do this with the line in.  I haven't played with the aux yet.  My one thought was to use the dual mono out and bring the backings in to the guitar input.  Then I just don't plug anything in to the right output jack.  So, the questions are, can I bring a line or aux signal in and turn off the output of those or can I make this signal hot enough for the guitar input?  Or am I going about it all wrong?  Anyway, the harmonies sometimes work like a champ with no external reference.  Fantastic job, guys.  But as you know, it can easily guess wrong.  I did find that if I remembered where it went wrong the last time, and I adjusted MY voice to, say the middle instead of the low, it would do better.  But I would like to test the Natural Play and haven't been able to yet.
Over all, I am sure in time I can get what I want out of this unit.  I sing 1000's of songs in all sorts of styles and most of the time, it's on demand and by request.  I had this down to two presets on my vx400.  The sound was very natural, full and allowed for everything from belting to falsetto.  If I can get 4-10 good presets (allowing for different versions and levels of harmonies) I'll be good to go. 

I haven't gotten to recording yet..  That will come soon.  Most of my recordings are just to get an idea of what people hear versus what I hear.  It's the absolute best way to train your ear, in my opinion..  Anyway, I may play with that tonight.

Re: Interface Suggestion

Only got to spend an hour or so with the Rack last night but figured a few things out. 
Installing Voice Support 1.2 fixed the "No internet available" issue and this version did find the Voicelive Rack.  I figured out that I can't "cut and paste" parts of one preset to another.  It would at least be cool to be able to see preset settings in a spreadsheet or even a text document so you could pull up two presets and look at the settings side by side.
I figured out the issue with the mic switch.  The switch uses Phantom power.  Turn off phantom, and you disable the mic switch.
Finding the USB for recording in my Sonar was seamless.  Recorded a few tracks with the "Another Brick" preset and what seemed processed to me in my head seemed much more realistic when played back.  Harmonies on "Mother" got a touch goofy.  Still need to figure out how to bring in a harmony reference without passing it along. to both the digital and analog outputs.

The recorded USB track levels come in much lower than what I'm used to.  I can turn the gain up on the tracks but I couldn't find a way to bring the signal in at a higher level.

Re: Interface Suggestion

First, I'm a little troubled that I provided questions and feedback that seemed to pretty much be ignored.  You have a new product and someone is willing to give you feedback, it seems you'd want to at least address it in some form or fashion.  While I'm sure some of the things I mentioned could easily be explained, none have been.  While I have figured out much more with the unit, there is one thing that is troubling to a point that makes me ready to send the unit back.  The pre amp is extreemly narrow.  Way too narrow.  Come on guys!  I'm now down to 10db on input, I can turn everything off, including tone, and still easily cause unwanted distortion. I do have some styles that use vocal distortion, but it certainly isn't to a point of blowing past the input level of a decent pre-amp.   I've performed on countless pre-amps and only a hand full of the cheapest ones blow out at such a narrow range.  I've tried a couple of mics and it isn't the mic.  Tried three different cables and it isn't the cable.  Checked the input on the mixer, it's not showing red at all. 

If I can blow past this pre-amp, can you imagine what an Ann Wilson would do to it?

Re: Interface Suggestion

Heya MrBoo,

Sorry for not responding faster. I've been in bed with the flu for a week and only was able to answer a handful of people here.

For USB, have you tried the various output level settings in the setup menu? I believe there's Mic, Line, Mic +6, Line +6, Mic +12 and Line +12.

For the pre-amp levels, have you set the gain automatically? It will listen to your input and set the gain to avoid clipping, based on the loudest input it hears during the test.

From the manual:

To set input gain automatically:
1. Touch the Bypass button so it flashes.
2. Hold the Input Gain button until the SING YOUR LOUDEST prompt is visible in the display.
3. Sing or start playback for approximately 5 seconds. The audio output will be muted.
4. The GAIN CHANGE amount will be shown in dB at the end of the sampling period. If you’re satisfied with the level adjustment, tap the Input Gain button to unmute the outputs and return to the previous display menu.
• The test period will not begin until input is detected. If none is detected, a timeout will revert the display to the previous display menu.

Hope that helps!

Craig

Re: Interface Suggestion

Got together with my ex/very part time band mates for a rehearsal and a gig.  Had some help from some of the guys and the sound tech.  Was able to reproduce what I thought was input clipping only it sounded different with the band's mixer.  Sound tech thought it was a cable, even though I tried two each of mic and output.  To test the output cable, he unhooked the mic and turned the gain all the way up on the mixer input gain. We heard all kinds of weird sounds.  He replaced the output cable with the mic cable.  There was a very little hiss at all.  SO, he determined I had a suspect output cable.  Retested the mic gain (yes, I have used the auto mic gain control) and he even bumped it up from 14 to 18 based on rehearsals.  Went home and retested the second cable I tried with the same result as the first suspect cable.  SO, I tested with two suspect output cables.  As it was explained to me, I was able to generate frequencies that caused some sort of resonance in the cable that was past on to the mixer input. On my mixer, it caused a clip on the head phone amp.  In the studio, it caused unwanted distortion.  My tech friend was amazed that things were are good as they were with the cables.  Ex band mates and the people at the gig were blown away with the result.  The guys have never played with such passion..  The Harmonies were MUCH improved following the guitarist. 

I'm still not totally comfortablele with the unit and I have to "fake" some things I used to do naturally, but I guess that's to be expected. The bottom line is, I'm the only one that knows so I guess the unit is exceeding what I had hoped and it's before I've spent a ton of time with it.  I had not planned to use the unit yet, but after the issues, I thought it best to try it in a band/live setting before sending it back.  Still several issues.  USB output follows the input level.  I don't see much change at all with changing the analog output level.  It won't be as big of an issue with an 18db level instead of 10.  Essentially, It's my view that it should have it's own level.  The same goes for the Aux output.  It should have it's own output level or mute.  I haven't even tried following Aux because I see no way to mute it

A "Wouldn't it be cool" is if the mic button could scroll through the steps...  I know the foot control can.  But what if you had two and the mic could toggle through both.  Then you could have different settings for all sorts of things in different parts of the song.  I wouldn't want to toggle between more than two and I wouldn't care if it was a foot control if I left it up to the sound guy.  BUT, most of the times it's just me...  Hey, while we are being cool, allow for a moment step change..