• steambc
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  • Registered: 2009-09-13
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Topic: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

I see that T.C. Helicon is releasing a new floor unit, the VoiceLive Play. I know there are some very obvious differences, but beyond the obvious, what are the differences between the VLT and the VLP?

Who is the target consumer for this unit? Is the target demographic different from us?

I wish T.C. Helicon would apply more resources to refining EXISTING equipment. I get the feeling that once something rolls out the door, it is largely abandoned in favor of creating the next latest and greatest item. The problem with that is that serious performers become FORCED to go to the competition when another manufacturer demonstrates loyalty to its existing customer base.

Hiring one or two more software developers is an up-front expense, but some business cultures (and you know who you are) simply can't see the long-term payoff in customer loyalty and word-of-mouth. This company has the potential to become legendary but it won't because it abandons its underdeveloped interfaces in order to get the next product out the door. Ready cash in lieu of solid customer base.

When I talk about these products I always shrug my shoulders and say, "Meh, it's ok, but...". Everything in me wants to say these products are awesome and the company is awesome in terms of support of existing products. But I can't say that. I perceive that there are almost no resources assigned to making the company's existing client base excited about doing business with it.

I personally am a fiercely loyal person and consumer. When a company is treating me right (meaning demonstrating obvious concern that my experience with their products and service is a good one), it is virtually impossible to tear me away from doing business with them. As it stands, if another product came along that does what these products do I would buy them in a heartbeat. Every fiber of my being doesn't want it to be that way. I have an overwhelming desire to stick with this company and proclaim great word-of-mouth. But I simply can't.

It doesn't matter that T.C. Helicon doesn't consider this an "abandonment" issue. A large part of the customer base DOES, and that should be enough to demonstrate a new respect for the customer.

The people here represent a small percentage of all users, but we are the voice of the ones who are really in the trenches and who really want to excel with the tools. Therefore our voice should matter greatly.

Having said all that, we couldn't ask for a better representative than Craig. He sincerely listens to us and sincerely tries to convey our experiences to the powers that be, no question about it. It must be frustrating for him to be fielding complaint after complaint, and then kind of having his hands tied because once he informs the decision makers there is nothing more that he can do. Craig, if you've read this far, I know I speak for all of us when I say that you are greatly appreciated here and your level of concern shows.

Do I write all this just because I feel like being cranky today? No, it's because I want to be fiercely loyal to Helicon and I want to shout to the rafters that I love this company and their products. The products are pretty darn good, but they need to implement the concerns of their client base in terms of feedback received from the trenches. Perhaps the interface of the VLT is too hard-coded to be able to change it to be more useful in the field. If they said that, I would not hold it against them for at least they are being honest and up-front. But please understand, TC Helicon, that occasional software updates that reflect the reasonable needs of your existing client base would secure you a lot of customer loyalty.

Last edited by steambc (2012-01-19 08:49:28)

  • Registered: 2011-05-27
  • Posts: 20

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

Well said Steambc!!!!!!

  • steambc
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  • Registered: 2009-09-13
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Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

Thank you, sir.

I know I'm a bit of a thorn in the flesh of the company, but wise is the company who realizes that the thorns are the very things that drive some people and some companies to greatness.

It should be obvious that I don't complain just to be cranky and to vent, but rather to demonstrate a very strong desire to stay with these products and to talk up the company with enthusiasm.

There is nothing more joyful than knowing you can buy a company's products sight-unseen because of their reputation for service. functionality and quality.

If these people at TCH are small, they will view my comments as an annoyance. If they are savvy, they will view them as a stepping stone toward even more success. A company's forum can and should serve a function similar to a missle guidance system that forces course corrections until the target is reached. If the target is customer loyalty and satisfaction, it will be so. If the target is endlessly pushing new products out the door and paying little attention to those who are already using their products and who need software/interface improvements, well, the honeymoon will be short indeed because other companies will pick up the baton and run with it. Run with **us**. Wow, I didn't know I could mix mataphors so completely. I just discovered a new talent!

But you get the idea. We ALL want to see TCH excel and be the greatest vocal effects manufacturer on earth for years to come. For that to happen, AFAIC, they need to say "Let's get this thing right for you guys before we move on to something else". THAT earns my undying loyalty. In a case like that, another company could offer to sell me thir latest high-tech vocal toy for 99 cents and I will say, "No thanks. TCH treats me right and my loyalty lies there".

Last edited by steambc (2012-01-22 12:20:37)

  • Registered: 2011-07-17
  • Posts: 5

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

I concur with all the above stated. Like my VLT a lot, but... wink can't wait to see TCH continue to refine it's current line (specifically the VLT). I'll ride this bus till the wheels fall off, but... wink Boss continues to make tempting offers, too bad I dropped all my cash for this decade on TCH & Roland. Plus, I'm seriously addicted to my VLT, and I've figured out a few work arounds to the mild issues I initially had, so my loyalty will stick with those who popped my looping cherry. They were so gentle...

  • Registered: 2012-01-23
  • Posts: 2

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

I'd have to agree as well with much already said here.  I've just logged on to the TCH website and saw the announcement of the new products and was a little confused who they would appeal to.  Looking online the VLP is about £200 less and the GTX is about £100 less than the VLT, and obviously the GTX has some extra guitar effects, so I'm assuming it's aimed at those with lower budgets.

Having had my VLT for a few months now I have to say that on the whole I love it, especially now that I have cabled it up to my Boss GT8 (midi) and I'm switching patches on both devices at the same time.  It has so many fantastic features, excellent sound quality and so simple to use, but that said there are a few niggles that are repeatedly discussed on this forum which I also find quite limiting at times.  I am eagerly waiting the next update for the VLT to see if it answers some of the current issues, but also to feel re-assured that TCH are committed to improving their existing products (not just moving on to the next product), and that my investment in their products is not a waste of my hard-earned cash!

In short, I'd say that the VLT is currently a good product that is really only a few steps away from being truly excellent, and I hope that one day soon to be enthusiastically advertising how amazing it and TCH are...

  • Registered: 2010-02-15
  • Posts: 150

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

If I understood the specifics

VLP have not customizable parameters, is a preset player.. if it's possible to define in this way. The target are all thos (seems not few) customers searching for presets ready to play, that song, that artist, that style. The promise to make available other presets soon... follow this line.
While other gear (VL2, VLR, VLT) are more creative and give more chance to make own sound.
Could be interesting.. make the presets available for top line VL gear too...

  • zymos
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  • Registered: 2011-11-18
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Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

I've only had my VLT a couple of months, and when I saw they had a new product coming out, I was prepared to be jealous.
Luckily (for me), the VLP is a more basic, less desirable model.

  • Registered: 2011-05-27
  • Posts: 20

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

Hey all,
I wouldn't get too excited about firmware updates for the VLT coming out anytime soon.  Craig from TCH has told us they just hired a new technician specifically for this issue but what he forgot to mention is what progress has been made if any at all over the past year of us asking about updates, and him assuring us technicians are diligently working on them.  I smell a run-around in progress!!!


I sure hope TCH and Craig don't think of me as a annoyance, all I want is a VLT that works as advertised for my hard earned money spent for it.  Craig has said the only people who post on this forum are ones who are really happy or really unhappy and I disagree.  The people who post here are the ones who care the most about their equipment and have the passion to relay comments or concerns be it good or bad.  I know you can't make everybody happy but you can try hahaha.

Take care,
Mike

Last edited by mikek1968 (2012-01-26 12:46:59)

  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2011-07-25
  • Posts: 379

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

Hi All,

Mike, you're definitely not an annoyance. All I can offer is my word that we're never trying to give anyone the run-around. There's no hidden agenda from TCH. We want our end users to feel supported and appreciated. Without you... I'd be living in a cardboard box in the middle of the road. (10 points for the reference)

Regarding posters on forums/internet, I guess "really happy or really unhappy" may have been less accurate than the way you put it: "the ones who care the most and have the passion..."

Something interesting about Touch and its relative lack of updates compared to something like VL2 is that the features we added to VL2 were already in Touch when it shipped, since Touch was developed after VL2. So, you'll see more updates to VL2 for the addition of the Looper etc.

Let me give you an update on what we're doing with Touch:

1. Fixed the looper not outputting via USB (fixed on VL2 as well)
2. Fixed the guitar level increasing/decreasing when Talk is pressed.
3. In progress on Aux level not recalling properly.
4. In progress on adding De-Essing control.
5. In progress on adding Delay Feedback control.

The new engineer is simultaneously learning all the ins and outs of the code, plus trying to make fixes along the way. His approach to things has been impressive so far and he's already pointed out ways we can optimize our process as we move forward, especially to make things easier to update.

There isn't ever an intent to leave anyone out in the cold, but I can sure see how it must feel that way when all I can give you is "We're working on it.".

So, with all that said, I'm going to work on a "Public Beta" style approach where I hope we can find some middle ground. If you're into it, we can send in-progress firmware to some folks here to help us test, once we've done an internal shakedown. I'll let you know when we have something. Should be within a couple of weeks, depending on any speedbumps we encounter adding features etc.

Not only would that get your issues sorted faster, it would provide us with a more robust test of real world situations that we simply can't replicate at the office.

It won't be something available to everyone, but something we'll discuss here and via private emails to vet users and make sure they're willing to provide useful feedback for us to apply to the beta firmware.

Thanks for sticking with it, despite the frustrations.

-Craig

P.S. Play+Play GTX vs. Touch

Obviously each generation of gear is something built from our past experiences and success/failure. We wanted to get a product out that was easier to edit, so Play and GTX have a simpler more intuitive menu system. The GTX integration of full guitar FX was a real boon for us, so we're pumped to see it move forward.

The Touch has much more robust looping features, more harmony voices, more I/O than Play (which has no Inst or MIDI).

Will I say that Play and GTX aren't a great value? Heck no. They are. But we feel like there's room for them to live with Touch in our lineup.

Craig @ TC-Helicon's Website

  • Registered: 2011-07-17
  • Posts: 5

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

Craig @ TC-Helicon wrote:

Hi All,

Mike, you're definitely not an annoyance. All I can offer is my word that we're never trying to give anyone the run-around. There's no hidden agenda from TCH. We want our end users to feel supported and appreciated. Without you... I'd be living in a cardboard box in the middle of the road. (10 points for the reference)

Regarding posters on forums/internet, I guess "really happy or really unhappy" may have been less accurate than the way you put it: "the ones who care the most and have the passion..."

Something interesting about Touch and its relative lack of updates compared to something like VL2 is that the features we added to VL2 were already in Touch when it shipped, since Touch was developed after VL2. So, you'll see more updates to VL2 for the addition of the Looper etc.

Let me give you an update on what we're doing with Touch:

1. Fixed the looper not outputting via USB (fixed on VL2 as well)
2. Fixed the guitar level increasing/decreasing when Talk is pressed.
3. In progress on Aux level not recalling properly.
4. In progress on adding De-Essing control.
5. In progress on adding Delay Feedback control.

The new engineer is simultaneously learning all the ins and outs of the code, plus trying to make fixes along the way. His approach to things has been impressive so far and he's already pointed out ways we can optimize our process as we move forward, especially to make things easier to update.

There isn't ever an intent to leave anyone out in the cold, but I can sure see how it must feel that way when all I can give you is "We're working on it.".

So, with all that said, I'm going to work on a "Public Beta" style approach where I hope we can find some middle ground. If you're into it, we can send in-progress firmware to some folks here to help us test, once we've done an internal shakedown. I'll let you know when we have something. Should be within a couple of weeks, depending on any speedbumps we encounter adding features etc.

Not only would that get your issues sorted faster, it would provide us with a more robust test of real world situations that we simply can't replicate at the office.

It won't be something available to everyone, but something we'll discuss here and via private emails to vet users and make sure they're willing to provide useful feedback for us to apply to the beta firmware.

Thanks for sticking with it, despite the frustrations.

-Craig

P.S. Play+Play GTX vs. Touch

Obviously each generation of gear is something built from our past experiences and success/failure. We wanted to get a product out that was easier to edit, so Play and GTX have a simpler more intuitive menu system. The GTX integration of full guitar FX was a real boon for us, so we're pumped to see it move forward.

The Touch has much more robust looping features, more harmony voices, more I/O than Play (which has no Inst or MIDI).

Will I say that Play and GTX aren't a great value? Heck no. They are. But we feel like there's room for them to live with Touch in our lineup.

::slow clap::

Best thing i've heard from you guys regarding the Touch... This is very exciting news... and thru it all, it's good to know a company rep can speak to the people who are passionate about their crafts and their tools. Thanks alot Craig & TCH... This gives me better perspective as to where the Touch, Voicelive, Play & GTX all fit it in the spectrum of company growth. Look forward to the firmware upgrades, and the rest of what you guys have in store.

Godspeed!

  • zymos
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  • Registered: 2011-11-18
  • Posts: 22

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

Craig @ TC-Helicon wrote:

Without you... I'd be living in a cardboard box in the middle of the road. (10 points for the reference)

Monty Python innit?

  • Registered: 2011-05-27
  • Posts: 20

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

What's up Craig,
Thanks for all the info regarding the VLTs firmware update outline.  Although I was expecting much more as far as what has been done since the last update about a year ago, something is way better than nothing at this point. 

And now for something completely different. tongue

Keep up the good work and congrats on expanding into the guitar FX world, but never forget it was our vocals that made ya famous lol!!!!

Cheers,
Mike

  • Registered: 2010-02-15
  • Posts: 150

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

Craig... 2 points more

1: the firmware update outline is regarding only VLT or VL2 too? (deessing and delay feedback control are 2 very interesting features).

2: we know presets are not interchangable, but why don't think to make available song or style presets as in the VLP for VLT, VL2 and VLR?

  • Registered: 2011-09-19
  • Posts: 29

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

For me the VLT has a superb user interface - I like it very! After a SO upgrade and fix the some bugs it will be the number 1 for me. My wife is more happy with the VL2 interface... So if TCH make one day a VL3 - please mandatory not to forget to make a new VLT too - thanks - BR - Krzysztof wink

Last edited by the_boss81 (2012-01-27 01:57:33)

  • steambc
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  • Registered: 2009-09-13
  • Posts: 26

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

Craig,

Could you ask the programmer about displaying "Favorite" names permanently so we don't have to try to memorize which custum patch corresponds to which favorite/bank number?

Whether scrolling or fixed, it doesn't matter. It's easy to forget OR need to verify which "Favorite" you're on, and it's a royal pain to have to reach out and tap the bar when the unit should be showing you what patch you're on just by glancing at it.

Since this is the Voice**LIVE** Touch, this capability is important because there are many distractions in a live setting and awareness is everything.

Kudos for adding deessing parameters. I thought the deessing on the "Correct" floor pedal was outstanding. I was easily able to dial it in at every venue.

Thanks for you efforts. They really are appreciated!

Last edited by steambc (2012-01-30 07:52:01)

  • steambc
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  • Registered: 2009-09-13
  • Posts: 26

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

Also, could you ask him if there's any possibility of increasing the required "Hold" time of the foot switch input?

It's way too easy to accidently hold when you really wanted to tap because the unit decides on a hold a little too quickly.

Last edited by steambc (2012-01-30 07:52:40)

  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2011-07-25
  • Posts: 379

Re: Who is the target consumer for the new Voicelive Play?

Heya,

Nightfly:

1. VL2 already has delay feedback, and x-feedback etc. in the settings. De-ess I'll have to double check, but I think it's in the Tone settings.
2. When we release presets for Play and GTX, we're going to look at how to adapt them for other products too. Play and GTX aren't the only things we'd like to see new presets go out to.

Steambc:

1. I'll ask how difficult some sort of option to display Fav names would be. We'd have to put in a user controlled option, so that we don't remove current display options that people might like.
2. Hold time is a tricky one. If we make it too long, then it becomes a burden to use quickly live. AFAIK the hold time should be the same as in our other products, but I'll take a look and see if we made it shorter than others.

Cheers,
Craig

Craig @ TC-Helicon's Website